Teachers’ Tales – The Journey From Classroom to Leadership

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the World Springway, our very own podcast where we delve into the world of education, exploring the experiences and insights of those shaping the future of our schools. Joining me today in front of the mic is not one but two talented education leaders. Adele Lowry and Catherine Heaton met more than 20 years ago as leads Beckett University students, studying their education with history degrees. Since then, they've taught in primary classrooms before making the move into leadership. They're both now associate principals at Wellspring, supporting the Trust 31 Schools with the remit of Academy and Assurance. Adele also leads our English network, whilst Catherine heads up our EYFS Network. And they offer their experience and support to teachers at all stages of their career. Adele and Catherine, welcome to the Wellspring Way.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Thank you. Thanks, Elizabeth.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

It's lovely to have two people on rather than just one as usual. Now you've both had quite varied careers in education, as I've covered a bit in my intro. What would you say the highlights have been?

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Oh, I've absolutely loved it. I loved when I started as then an NQT at Robin Hood Primary and Mark Wilson, he was our head, and we just had that the best time ever. You know, he really encouraged us to think of really creative and innovative ideas for our practice. So we just had loads of fun. We'd um, you know, rewrite topics. So we wrote a topic once about um uh unsolved phenomena around the world, unsolved mysteries. And um we just did great stuff. Like um, I was telling Catherine earlier. I remember messaging him during our half-term saying, Oh, I'd really like to um burn a crop circle on the field. And um, he messaged straight back, and I was laughing because I think he only messaged thinking, Oh my god, Adele's gonna set fire to the school, so I will meet you there. And um he did, and we um he came with his blowtorch uh and wellies and everything. I think I just had the idea and then turned up without anything. And we did, we made a big crop circle, and um, the children went up to investigate, and it was a great stimulus for writing. So we just had loads of fun.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

That's interesting because I've heard that story a few times about the um the burning of the crop circles and all that, and uh it disappeared in various articles and stuff, and I didn't know it was you that was involved in that.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Yeah, and she's still employed and novel and down, so it's worked well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Career highlight arson in the school for you. That's definitely why Mark turned up. And what about you, Catherine?

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Um, I think a couple of mine, one is is the children, the difference you make and the and the families you make with your children and the the groups and how they move forward and how you can see a child from reception to year six um and kind of turn into that young person. Um, and I think part of of what I I love is actually not just shaping kind of around the children, but actually the leaders and the teachers. Um I've got um two two really good friends of mine actually now who who were kind of my baby NQTs, who are now ahead of school, um, and one is head of head of um early years within the school. Um and I think kind of playing a part in how they then go on and shape has been has been one of my career highlights, if I'm honest. Um, and the connections you make and the difference that can make as working within a team. So I think um working in education can be really hard, it can also be lots of fun. Um, and I think the team you've got around you is really, really important and for when it's difficult, but equally for when you when you are really, really enjoying what you do. Um, I I don't think there's been one one specific moment that I've thought, right, that's it. Um I think kind of it it's been an ongoing journey, and I don't think it ever stops. And that's that's what's quite exciting, really, about kind of your career as a teacher, it never is the same. One year will be totally different to the next year. Um, so I don't think I'd have one specific highlight. Yeah, I think in a nutshell, kind of the difference you make to the children and the families, and then actually professionals that you've worked with and how they've kind of taken on and grown.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

That beautifully segues into my next question, actually, which is that you've um taken on new roles since September, haven't you? So you've gone into um leadership roles within the trust, working in assurance. How's that been? How have you found that switch from from classroom to to trust-wide, really?

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Um, we've absolutely loved it. It's been great. Before we took on this role, we were predominantly working with the teachers at Victoria Primary, um, and we worked as a team um before to get towards their offset inspection, and then we went to EBUS. So we kind of did it on smaller levels, and then um working within the BLPP.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

So we kind of had like a remit of around like the five schools, and I think it it's been a mind shift of actually it's not just mainstream um and kind of stretch almost pushing us out of our comfort zone that actually it's 30, it's 31 schools to get to know. So where you're used to getting to know 30 children in the class, I feel a bit is a bit like now we're getting to know those 31, 30 going up 32 schools in in that remit almost like they are kind of children, if that makes sense. So I think it it's but I feel like we're getting ahead number one around where everyone is in the world.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

But your mileage has gone up a bit, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 5:29

But we've actually went to orchest and we didn't really have to rely on sat nav that much. Normally we just put there, but we're getting better at finding places, which is good. We did do a loop, but we did do a little loop. Um, but yeah, it's been uh getting to see the schools and meeting all of the leaders has been amazing. Um I think that's been a real highlight, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Kind of it the part of part of the room is you have that additional freedom that you don't have when you have 30 kids in front of you or a school in front of you on the day to day, um to kind of have that step away in reflection time opens up a lot more lot more doors, which is quite an exciting position to be in, to be able to say, right, well, what can we do to help? Okay, we'll go away and think about that and and and bring that back for you. And I think that's that's been a pleasure, really, hasn't it, to be able to support leaders to do what they need to do, and hopefully that's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Yeah, and we've really enjoyed um facilitating the training and development that we've been doing. So we've got to meet so many teachers and leaders across the trust, um which are all amazing and they're so talented. So it's been great to kind of share their expertise. Um, and now because we know you know, if some if a school does need um some support with something, we we kind of know the people who they could turn to and point them in that direction. So it's really good starting to grow that knowledge across the schools. That's been really helpful. Um, we also are lead mentors for some of the skit students, um, student teachers, sorry. So that's been um that's been really nice to work alongside those as well because it's really nice to work with the leaders, but then as well those teachers that are at the beginning of their journeys as well.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Yeah. What do you what do you say to kind of teachers that um that are right there at the start? What do you what do you tell them about teaching right when they're right at the beginning, fresh faced?

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Um it's it's the best, it's the best job in the world, and when it turns into not the best job in the world, it's you shouldn't be doing it anymore.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Yeah, definitely. And to enjoy it because um, and to make sure that the children enjoy it, because everyone wants to enjoy their day and have fun learning.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

So you but you've got to enjoy it because it isn't everybody will tell you it isn't just a job and it can be all consuming, and it is about that balance. I don't think I ever got that balance or have that balance, it's just personality. But when you do love what you do, what you put in is what you get out, and I think that's the difference in in kind of a teaching profession to maybe some others. Um the difference you make actually, if you spent an extra half an hour doing X, Y, and Z for the outcomes for the children, it it can it can have that. Doesn't mean that this the standard can't be fine without that. Um, and I think people box a bit smarter these days than possibly when we were training, it was everything, you did everything. There wasn't wasn't necessarily the collaboration that that takes place now. Every session, you did every resource, every every element. Um, but I think you learn from that, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Um you've mentioned that you're both um leaders of different networks. Um, Adele, your your English, Catherine, your EYFS. Um so that that collaboration, that professional um sharing runs through at every level, doesn't it? It's not just about trainee teachers, it's about teachers throughout their career. How important are those networks?

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Um, in particular in your specific areas, oh, so important to be able to share the amazing practice that is going on across all of our schools, um, from our SEMH, from our special, from our secondary. Um we really we just facilitate whilst we're there, it's led by all of the amazing English leaders part of the English network, and it's their chance to say, we're doing this, this is great, we've got this new um AR headset, and this is the writing that came from it, or you know, we've been on teacher matic and it's saved loads of time. So it's just a really powerful tool for people to share, practice, and learn from each other, and also to ask each other, you know, we're struggling with this, or we've all been looking at kind of how to engage um reluctant writers. So just sharing and having that time together um is really beneficial, and I think quite exciting.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

So I kind of reflect back, I still do because I'm a little bit sad, but that excitement of seeing another idea that you that you then bounce off and then it turns into something else, or you or you take that and try it and play with what shapes you. I think that's that is the excitement and buzz of teaching. So I think those networks give that opportunity that that to have that kind of time to share what's worked really well or what you might be struggling with, to look at it together, but also to to be inspired by others because there are lots of talented people in lots of schools, and we are really lucky that actually it's not just mainstream. Um the early years network that was actually just last night, we're basically sharing kind of the biggest impact they've had around um children with additional needs, and that that was a massive range.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Um have you got any kind of examples in either of your networks of things like where people have implemented something and it's worked really, really well? You're like that's directly as a result of them getting together and having having these conversations in these networks.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Uh yeah, absolutely. So I just um touched upon previously the teacher Matic. So um it's new kind of AI software which can help just support with planning and saving time around building resources. So we're all just having a go. We trialed it a couple of networks ago, and then people have just been sharing how they've built resources using it, how it's helped them to plan a unit, um, it's saving time, um, it's something that they can, you know, quickly make um a resource with if they just type in. If I don't know, if say you're doing the Great Fire of London, you really quickly want a diary of Samuel Peeps, it gives you things and resources. So that's something new that everybody's having a little go at and a play with right now. But it just shows the power that you can share it and then everyone's gone away and had a little go with it, which is great.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Gosh, that's interesting, isn't it? Because there's so much being written at the minute about AI and kind of impact on education from a student perspective, mainly, about you know, are students gonna actually bother doing the homework anymore when they can get Chat GPT to do it. Um, but um, it's interesting to see the other side of it that it's a really powerful tool for teachers to make their lives a little bit simpler and more effective.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Everyone wants to save time, and yeah, that's a resource to use. So, yeah, that's just up and coming. It's really interesting to see as well how people are trialing it and having their own go with it because obviously people are approaching it in different ways for different needs, so that's been great.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

And what about EYFS? I think from the earlier years there's been lots of different strands. So um, we've kind of encouraged a buddy system. Um, one of the ones that's kind of worked quite nicely with um Eva Gardens and Greenacre. So that's um David and um David Tim Tinker, actually going to each other's settings and and thinking, right, actually, I've seen that work really well. So I think objects of reference was something that then was used in in another setting, um, and actually the mainstream versus kind of special and AP expectations, so actually still keeping an eye on what are those expectations and what that looks like that looks like both ways, um, because there's a lot to be learned from both sides. So I think that's been that's been really, really powerful. Um I think I'm hoping um from the kind of all the elements that were shared last night, the things that put in place um that people will be contacting um each other really as well about kind of training the one of them's just gone on dyslexia training and actually how that can be disseminated and used as a tool. Um there were a couple of different sessions that people have looked at, um, and there's um drawing club that we're we're gonna look at possibly collaborating on and thinking if that's something that again around kind of improving the standards in the writing. Um, but it's got to be something that everybody kind of wants um little courts are trying that at the minute. So that's something that again to be pulled on and think how how does that look um in everybody's settings.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

It is one of the great um positives about Wellspring, isn't it? It's that mix of um S E N AP Mainstream and all those different professionals with all those different insights, being able to come together and um and cross-reference, it's it's a really powerful thing. And I'm guessing in a lot of trusts, there isn't that. You know, there's you know, they're very much specialists in their particular particular area, and we have a we have a really good mix. But I'm guessing for all the benefits, there's challenges with that probably as well.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Yeah, and I think it's pushed us out of our comfort zone. We've learned so much because obviously our background we've both been mainstream, um, but actually, when you come to plan training or the networks and you're thinking about it, it it does incorporate everything. Teaching is teaching, and learning is learning. So actually, it doesn't matter which setting it is, it does all um and leading is leading.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

So we've just done some phase leader kind of training. Well, actually it was really nice because it's it's not just for mainstream, it's actually for a for a cross, yeah. Um and to share that share those experiences regardless of the setting is it is is powerful.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Talking about leadership, um, that's quite an interesting bit, isn't it? How because teachers are trained to teach. Now you both did um uh you both did education degrees with history, right? That's right.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Yeah, that's where we met at Leeds Becket in um 2003. We did the four-year um Bayons with history, was our specialism special.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

We actually had to dig up part of Carnegie Ground and do an excavation. Yeah, we didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Didn't fit didn't find like um a dead monarch under under the carpet car park or thing though.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

No jewelry, no gold, no. Um Pocker did that, yeah. Um yeah, that's where we met, and then we both finished in 2007 as um as rookies. And Catherine went to Whitkirk and I started at uh Robin Hood, but we lived in a house of six teachers.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

There was eight of us, but six of us were teachers, so we were all applying for jobs like at the same time for the say a lot of us when I when I got my job, the um the head at the time said, Oh, I think I recognized that address, and I think there'd been like five out of the six that would have applied for the position.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Competitive teaching, like some some weird education version of Big Brother or something. That's kind of with the same um yeah, I was talking about like leadership and how you know you start off as a trainee teacher, um, you get comfortable in a classroom, leading kids, planning lessons, and then suddenly you're kind of expected to jump up to the leadership roles, and that's a totally different set of skills.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

How have you found that move from classroom to I I think I found where I learned so much was the first leadership jump being a phase leader and leading my first team, and I learned so much about myself because obviously you've got to practice what you preach every single day, you've got to be on the ball and um leading by example, and then you've got to start to also hold people to account and look at that across a phase rather than just in your your classroom. So I think for me that was you know such a learning curve, and I learned so much within that time of being a phase leader, um, which then set me up to go on to be an assistant and like um you know, some of the role I do now. But I do think um that transition from class teacher to phase leader was a really big one, um, but a really crucial one, which I really enjoyed. But I did learn a lot at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Um I did the standard was duped into uh doing it for many years before I actually was officially doing it. Um, so I think I I was really lucky, um, and I'm I'm quite an impatient person, so I probably drove things at a point because it was annoying me, so I wanted to do it. Um I worked leading kind of a team of three initially, which kind of then went to six um of key stage one, but I kind of was almost leading key stage one without leading key stage one um and and built that team up. But I think if if I kind of reflect back, I was really lucky. Both those other two teachers are actually like long-standing friends, and I've been at the weddings, it's been, but we were kind of we're all on the same page, and I think that was a really good position to be in, um, to then gradually move. And I think in some elements, taking kind of that leadership on where you are, it if you grow, both of us actually grew into leadership positions where we were. So I was at work of work for 12 years. Um, that that's it, it's it's got its negatives and positives, but actually you've gained the respect because they know that you you practice what you preach and it it's your everyday. Um, I did um a year in a um private private nursery um that was brand new opened, and which one of our best friends had opened. Um, it it was possibly one of the hardest years of my career. Um, you were managing um kids on kids, so you've got your 16-year-olds, you're managing people that turn around and say no to you. And I was like, oh my god, nobody says what do you mean you're saying no? It's very, very different to then when you're in a in a private setting. Um, so I think that was a that was a big learning curve, but also you you kind of had to establish yourself again. So I think depending on where you are and your position at the time, sometimes it's quite good to go somewhere new and establish yourself. If you are already established and you have good relationships and respect, actually the the the leading element comes comes in an easier route, I think, and actually then kind of to to cut again, kind of start again. Um and I think that can be quite hard to kind of get that balance. Um, and I think I I think again you you learn a lot being a phase leader. I think that's one of the one of the toughest gigs that's there because you are you're having to do everything, and actually your class is is second to everybody else's. So when you're leading a phase, so I think when I first started phase leadership, I'd kind of gone for key sedues, but ended up leading key sedge one in early years. I'd actually not done early years um at that point in in my career, and actually I then had to kind of swap and lead from early years to make sure it was kind of how I how I wanted it my vision to be. Um and and then lead key sedge one was was easier because that's something that I knew like the back of my hand. Um so I think it's it's those twists and turns, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Um now I'd like to have a little bit of talk to talk to you a little bit about your your specialisms in these networks, because well, for you Adele, we've got Will Book Day just around the corner. Um really kind of well, it's become such a kind of uh focal point in the calendar for for so many schools and so many kids. But what do you think the trick is to fostering that that love of reading, getting kids really enthusiastic about books because that's where it all starts and it's really important, but um it's it's not always easy.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Uh I honestly believe it's about sharing stories and building that pleasure for reading with your children because that's where the excitement comes from. I was shared with Catherine earlier, I really struggled to learn to read at primary school, and I remember still in year three, which is old, I couldn't read, um, which led to me, you know, I was really disengaged, talked a lot. Um, all of my reports said if Adele stopped talking and applied herself more. They all did. Um, but then in year five, um in came this wonderful, amazing NQT called Miss Cleaver, and she honestly turned my life around because she I'll never forget, she taught us loads of things like netball, like she really cared, she'd get the nets out, she'd give us bibs. Like we learned so many things, but the biggest thing for me was she sat every single day and read to us, and it was my most favourite time of the day, and she'd read with so much engagement, so much excitement that I wanted to read like her, and I really didn't. That's how I learned to read because of this, and I could understand stories, I understand, stood why we what the enjoyment of reading, she brought it to life. Um, I can remember she read Superfudge, Judy Bloom, and then I read every single Judy Bloom book. Um, and I still think about it now because she really did switch me on to learning and especially reading, and that's what I always think about, and it's so important when I advocate reading. In school, yes, you know, it's really important to learn comprehension and all of the skills, but most of all, have fun and enjoy listening to stories. And you know, there's so many wonderful authors now, and so many great stories that we can share with the children. I think that's what it's all about. So sometimes I don't want it to get lost in World Book Day with you know the characters and the dressing up and all of those other things because really it's just about making sure we share stories and we foster that love of reading.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Yeah, what a love, what a lovely story as well. What brings brings it home about kind of the power of a really good teacher and what what a difference a really brilliant teacher can make.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

It's absolutely yeah, and not only that did she want me like uh I started enjoying learning, but I also always wanted to be like her, and that's when I thought I wanted to be a teacher like her. She was so cool as well. I don't think I'm as cool as her, but um she was amazing, yeah. Um, and Catherine, yeah, early years.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Now, gosh, we all know now how important those few years are, they're like absolute building blocks for everything else that comes after. Um, how do you get early years right? Because I mean, I'm a mum, I've you know, I've got two. I know how challenging it is to entertain small children when you've got one of them, let alone a class full. How unnecessary.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

I think early years for me wasn't actually where I kind of started in key stage one um and ended up in early years, actually, kind of four or five years into my teaching kind of career. Um, but for me, it's about getting it right at the beginning and actually fostering it's such an important year, that kind of first year within a school, whether that's you start at nursery or you start at reception. Um I think relationships is is huge. Um, modelling everything that you do, actually being able to enjoy learning. Everybody kind of thinks that early years is a mystery, it really isn't. You're learning through plain learning is learning all the way up. So I think sometimes people like to mystify it. It really is just learning, um, and people turn it into learning instead of saying they're playing. Well, actually, when you're playing, you are learning and understanding what that looks like and how that moves on. Um, and yes, there's lots of areas, and yes, there's lots of things to track and do, but really it is about that modelling, that relationship, and that freedom to be able to practice things and to facilitate that. And I think giving them those first set of skills is is one of the best, the best year groups to do. Um, you're fostering those relationships from the beginning. So I think I I can remember doing my first set of home visits as a teacher. You you don't probably do that in in many other settings other than early years, but actually to go and really understand that child that's coming to you is huge, it can sometimes not always, but it can get lost. But actually, that whole child, because actually you wouldn't have a child for part of that day. But knowing that if Fred is upset, actually, he just needs you to hold his hand, that's what he really likes. Or if if Bobby's Bobby's not quite right, if you get Spider-Man out, he'll be fine. Um, and it's kind of all those tips and tricks that you learn. Um, and I think it isn't just about the child, if I'm honest, I think it is about fostering that those relationships with the parents, you have to get that right as well. Um, I don't think there is a magic wand, and I think that's what's really difficult in early years, and actually really difficult with learning. There is no one way of doing it right, and everybody will have an opinion about early years, but actually it's about what's right for those children and that teacher and that setting. Um, so different schools will have different takes of their vision of what it is. Um I've kind of always been 50-50. Um, that there's lots of in the moment is amazing. It's actually really, really hard because you've got to follow every single child and get it to different points. And actually, if you're adding a little bit of structure and modelling within it, comes in quality first teaching. You are modelling, you're doing, you're showing, you're stepping back, can they do it on their own without you? Um, so I think it it can be mystified into something that it isn't. I think people are often afraid and think, oh god, it's early years and this, but actually, when you really unpick it and do it, it is just what quality first teaching and learning is, and and playing is learning. Um and I think that that can sometimes get lost.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

And we always say, don't we, Catherine, we think every teacher should do a stint in early years because it's the foundations of learning, and we think everyone should have a go and understand those important four foundations.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

And I think there's things that like you would actually do in early years that you would do in year six because they are still kids and they still do need to play. Um, but yeah, that importance of play.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Um, I saw something on Twitter actually a little while ago about um teachers sometimes trying to kind of take bits from higher up school and refigure it for early years, but actually it's a totally different beast. It's it's play. Play plays plays at the at the heart of all of it. Um, and that's I I like the idea that everybody should do a stint in early years because I was just thinking that it's not just about they it's not just having that insight into that that child. Early years teachers probably have a closer insight into the communities in which they teach than anybody else.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Yeah, it gets, and I think unfortunately, sometimes it can get lost. I think you are that you are that person, you are really, really important. And I think it's it's a big, it's a big step for a parent to say, here I have my child for this amount of time. Um, and depending on where the children have come, come to, I can remember um one little girl that I taught had never never been left by mum ever until reception. Um we had to adjust and do reduced time because she just was beside herself and would just cry literally all day long. And it's about kind of unpicking how you and and and then actually you get there and it and it's a journey. But I think having that understanding of everything about that child is is really really important.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

And early years have a very open door, you know, come in for stay and plays, come and see this. I've just gone to the twins preschool to watch them do a Chinese dragon dance, beautiful, so lovely. But for some reason that kind of tends to stop in early years, you know. Why don't we invite parents in to share more of our topics and to share more learning and see the children learning? But um, yeah, I think sometimes as well, we see that people have a bit of a fear of early years. There is a fear, like, oh, I I couldn't do that mess and handle them. Um, when actually it's so important because for speaking and listening uh is crucial, and some children, you know, we still need to build those speaking and listening skills, and that's where it begins. I think on rhyme and play.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Understanding what learning is, yeah, you is really, really, really clear in early years. And and yes, it's not straightforward, but actually really having that time to be able to do that. I think things like outside learning is so important, but actually, you know yourself, I know myself, I will be different when I am outside, and actually, it's that freedom of what you can do and what where you can shape them, what you can do, and it's a bit like oh, I'm I'm lifted. You kind of still have your constraints inside, which is it's just possible they're culturally. I don't know, do you know what I mean? But I think having that and the freedom that early years gives, because there is there is they've got to get to that point, but there is there is not necessarily one set way of doing it, and actually that freedom to shape that, and think, oh, do you know what they've loved that? Let's go with that and see where that that can take us. And then the skill of the earlier teacher is to weave everything into that, and I think that's that's really, really powerful and quite exciting, um, kind of fun.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Yeah, yeah. I mean, whenever I visit a school and I get to get to have a play in nursery or reception, it's it's just the best. It's just yeah, it's just fun, isn't it? It's brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Um I was just gonna say, you know, a lot of schools do buddies in year five and six, and then you see those children absolutely loving being in early years, and you think, God, they miss that play, they're missing having a good time and doing that rather than the constraint sometimes of being sat down all day.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

But you you so you see it with kids throughout the as they grow up, don't you? That there's that kind of pressure to to be grown up, and actually when they're given the freedom to just regress a little bit, if for want of a better word, it's it's lovely. Yeah, you adults do adults love an excuse to kind of you know be kids again for a little bit. It's it's fabulous, yeah. Yeah, um right. I'd now like to quiz you a little bit on your own school days. Find out what what we've we've heard a little bit, we've heard a little bit about reading, um, but I want to find out a little bit more. Um, so music or drama?

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Drama.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Oh drama. Drama. That's a thing there. Do you play any musical instruments or anything? Or did you?

SPEAKER_02 30:44

I learned to play the piano um but could never actually read music. So I used to go to piano lessons, not be able to play it, go home, sight, learn the music, go back in, pretended I read read the music and learnt it all, and then obviously did shocking in the lesson because I couldn't read the music. Went home, wrote all the letters on, learnt it by memory, and then went back in again.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Um, school dinners are packed lunches. Definitely dinners. Dinners were amazing when I oh I loved it. We used to have pie with really thick pastry and pink custard on cornflake cake. Love dinners when I was at school.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Oh, cornflake cake, yeah. Pack lunches. I'm really fussy eater.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

So didn't work for you.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

I had the little raisins in the thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Um, science or maths. Science.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

And there's always that great thing when you went, you go to secondary school and you get like the bunts and burners and the iron iron filing. Whoa, this is so cool.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

I used to sit on the front row for chemistry just because I really wanted to know how to do it. It's really complicated.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Yeah, definitely science. Yeah, yeah, setting fire to things and seeing what colour they went, and yeah, all yeah, all that stuff. Um, did you have a favorite science?

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Probably chemistry. I absolutely love seeing, yeah, seeing all of the um the different uh chemical reactions.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Um school, school sports day or summer fair sports day. Did you were you good at a particular thing? Did you have your own little niche?

SPEAKER_00 32:12

Because I was this, this is honestly true. I was this high in year seven, stopped growing. I think I used to pray I'd stopped growing, and then I did. Um, I always got put for the long jump. Oh no, the high jump. I always did the high jump, and to be fair, I did quite well it because I was twice the height of everyone else until they caught with me.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Obstacle course at primary. I loved the obstacle course and the round the field. I mean, I don't think you'd be allowed to do it now because you definitely could have run off, but it was a really round the field race, loved it, and the single course.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

Oh, yeah, with a bean bag and all that stuff. Go and clutch your bean bag and bring it back and all that.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

I did 100 meters once as a backup because the top person couldn't do it and fell down a hole in front of the whole school. How embarrassing. Um, exams are coursework. Coursework. Oh, I I didn't mind doing exams.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

I quite liked it.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Made my posters. Got got Adabin A Star coursework and had a bin BC exam. Exams are not for me.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Interesting, isn't it? How kind of people generally kind of fall on one side, one side or the other. Um and after school clubs are rushed straight back home.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

I think I always went home. Oh, I like I used to do a lot of dancing. Um, so I quite liked my after school clubs. But you did a lot of things out of school, yeah, horse riding and things. So do you mean like extra quick yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

We did do a lot of extra quick yeah, horse riding, valley.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

And finally, the very last question, and then you're free to go. Um, the quite the question that we ask everybody um, if I gave you a magic wand and you could change anything you wanted about the education system, what would you do?

SPEAKER_00 34:00

And I think for me, it'd be around building teachers' capacities to construct and adapt their own curriculum based on children's interests and needs. Um, so having a bit more freedom, like I talked about previously. I feel like we all did at Robin Hood, we could um create new topics that were fun and engaging and created great writing stimuluses. And I think um people can be quite restricted by the curriculum, so it would be um, you know, for children for teachers to be able to adapt their own and to make it child-centred.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

I'm thinking right outside the box. So I'm thinking you want a swimming pool because you should be able to swim because it's a life skill. Um I think um, I think the constraints that can be put on children to be a certain way and have to do a certain thing, everybody's different, and it is about what's right for that child. Um, and I think if no money was no object, actually it would it unfortunately would open more doors, and which is really, really sad because actually I I think people know what children need, and sometimes they can't give it um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

So, yeah, I mean, gosh, you could have a swimming pool, you could have a dance fitted out dance studio, you could have an amazing IT suite with all the best tech for kids that are into yeah, you could yeah, I mean, we see a lot of these like in our special schools, Trent View, unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

They've got like a beauty style on God, I would have loved this when I was at school, and they've got a swimming pool, the hydro, and you know, things like that. I think every school should have that for those um mainstream as well, for those children who would like careers in that and so could to have that as part of their curriculum.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

And both of you basically said a similar thing in a different way, it's about having freedom, isn't it? It's that freedom of choice to to work out what's really right for children that are all, like you say, so so different. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lovely. Thank you so much to both of you for for taking out to join me and have a chat. It's been it's been lovely um to talk to you and find out a little bit about what you've been up to and and your histories. Um I hope you'll be able to join us soon for the next episode of the Wellspring Way.